Interview: Spencer Matthews on taking part in Pilgrimage

Pilgrimage is back with a brand-new series returning to BBC Two and iPlayer this month, as seven well known personalities, of differing faiths and beliefs, tackle a modern-day pilgrimage, this time along the North Wales Pilgrim’s Way.

Across 3 x 60 minute episodes, Pilgrimage: The Road Through North Wales will follow the celebrities, as they take a personal journey along a route that celebrates Celtic early Christian saints. Their final destination is Bardsey Island, the fabled ‘Island of 20,000 saints’, just off the western tip of the Llyn Peninsula.

Immersing themselves on this spiritual journey are: wild life presenter Michaela Strachan who places her faith in the natural world; Spencer Matthews, a former Made in Chelsea reality star, who was christened Church of England but is still searching for answers to life’s big questions; Sonali Shah, a journalist and TV presenter who grew up in a Jain family; comedian Eshaan Akbar, a lapsed Muslim; Amanda Lovett, a practising Catholic, who catapulted into the public eye in the first series of Traitors; actor Tom Rosenthal of Friday Night Dinner fame, who is areligious; and TV personality and former model Christine McGuinness, who is spiritual but doesn’t practise one particular faith.

Travelling on foot and by bus, the pilgrims begin their adventure from the start of the 220km Pilgrim’s Way near St Winefride’s Well. In a journey taking two weeks, they will be faced with challenging paths and climbs as they traverse North Wales, tackling the foothills of spectacular mountain ranges. Carrying their own backpacks, they’ll sleep in basic accommodation from a caravan to a climbers’ hut, as well as experiencing an eco-retreat in an ancient oak forest and a Buddhist meditation centre.

Created in 2011, the North Wales Pilgrim’s Way is linked by ancient churches, dedicated to sixth and seventh century saints, but also takes pilgrims through places of outstanding natural beauty in the mountain ranges of Eryri, also known as Snowdonia, and the North Wales coast path.

Their final destination is Bardsey Island, or Ynys Enlli, which means ‘isle of currents’. It was a popular destination amongst early Celtic Christian monks and hermits who believed Bardsey was the end of the world, where the space between heaven and earth became ‘thin’, which made the island a place of guaranteed resurrection. But crossing the Bardsey Sound is notoriously dangerous, so will the celebrities manage to complete this challenging journey safely?

Interview with Spencer Matthews

Did you find/feel/experience what you were hoping to find/feel/experience on this pilgrimage?

Absolutely, I felt like I learned a lot, and I was there to broaden my knowledge and experience of religion and spirituality in whatever form, basically. I’m not a practising Christian but I would consider myself spiritual and I think we were very lucky with the group and the crew that we had. I really gained a lot from it and some of what I learned, I still practice today.

And was that unexpected, that you felt all of that? Did it surprise you?

Not really, I went in with a completely open mind, eager to learn and to take on information and experiences, regardless of how stereotypically different they may feel to me and my lifestyle. So, I knew I would come out more rounded. I wasn’t expecting it to be as impactful as it was.

So, what were the revelations about yourself or your faith?

I was surprised by the similarity that is shared across faith in general – through Muslim faith, Catholic faith, Christian faith, it appears that the core pillars of religions remain similar in that they’re all based around moral value, which I think is important to have and explore, in general.

Most of the messaging that I picked up along the way, was if you are a good person and you treat people well and with respect and kindness, you will be granted a place in nirvana or heaven or the afterlife; it’s all quite similar stuff. and it just makes you realise, when you actually spend time focusing on it, how little one needs to do in order to feel better.

I’ve always been fascinated by religion and how it can bind so many millions of people together. I was particularly interested in the Muslim faith, and how deeply religion runs through their society and culture. In terms of pilgrimage, for me it was a learning curve. I did pick up a lot of information about stuff that I knew nothing about before, and I enjoyed that. I enjoy learning about anything that I’m unfamiliar with.

Did you have to prepare in advance for the pilgrimage? If so, what did you do?

No, not at all. The entire point of it for me was to go in unprepared so that everything felt new and authentic. Obviously, the distance covered and the walking was never a concern of mine in particular, but I was interested in the different cultures and traditions shared between faiths and other things that I know nothing about.

And what did you not do? In hindsight was there anything you should have done to prepare yourself?

As someone who runs quite a lot and does endurance runs too, I wasn’t concerned about the walking. I think that when you know very little about a subject, it’s very difficult to prepare for it, so just going in with an open mind is about the best thing that one could have done going into this.

What was your highlight?

The highlight was meeting new people. I learned a lot about the Muslim faith from Eshaan Akbar, who I loved. We developed a real friendship.

I really enjoyed spending time with Tom Rosenthal as well, and I picked up some new friends along the way. I felt very lucky with the group. I love people, I love stories and storytelling and picking up experiences with other people.

I particularly enjoyed walking Snowdon, that was a real high point of the journey for me. It was beautiful. North Wales is such a beautiful part of the world: getting fresh air together, walking, which I believe to be incredibly important, and getting to know each other.

I have some lasting friendships from doing the show. I learned about fasting through Sonali Shah. I did a 24-hour fast whilst filming, to show solidarity for Jainism, which is an ancient religion.

I began to learn a lot about fasting and that led me to read books about fasting and breathing and that got me on to Wim Hof and James Nestor and I’ve suddenly found myself reading books about spirituality.

I really feel like I broadened my mind an awful lot on that pilgrimage, and I still fast. I have been fasting ever since the last week of the pilgrimage on a daily basis. So, I’ve taken that with me.

Have you ever climbed/walked in Snowdonia before?

No, I’ve not but I was delighted to have done it, actually. Mount Snowdon was a really, really beautiful mountain, I really enjoyed it. I was very proud of some of my new friends who are slightly more foreign to hiking who were also able to get to the summit of Snowdon. It was a really great day.

Were you surprised by any of your fellow pilgrims’ reactions to any situations?

I was actually. The pilgrimage brought a few of my new friends to tears on a number of occasions. Quite a few of us actually felt incredibly moved by the last church that we arrived at. We sat in silence and received a sermon from a Welsh priest there and more than half the group were moved to quite full-on tears. I was not one of them. Although, that was one of the moments where I felt jealous of people with more access to emotion than me.

I also discovered thin space. A thin place is said to be the area between kind of earth and heaven. It’s that feeling you feel when you see a beautiful sunrise or sunset or a shooting star, or even a gust of wind if you’re running and you feel kind of aided by something else, or something external.

It could be a thought that you have just when you’re on your own. It’s whatever you want it to be really, but I think the most common use of the word is when you see something incredibly spellbinding, that doesn’t feel human or doesn’t feel natural. And we experienced some thin spaces on a number of occasions, but particularly when we finished the pilgrimage, and were staring at Bardsey Island, which is this absolutely beautiful small island, just off the Welsh coast.

We felt bonded by the experience that we had had, and it felt very thin, the space that we were in. It was a very special journey.

Is that because it was emotional or eye-opening, or it just made you think more, what was that?

It just made me think more. I don’t think it’s normal to spend two weeks talking about spirituality and religion and history and the roots of where faith comes from, and all of the incredible people and events that have led us to still be sharing stories thousands of years after they took place.

It was just quite a powerful and interesting journey for me. Coming from a zero base, my mind was in kind of overdrive for a lot of it and it was just interesting to really understand and try to process some of the journeys and experiences and stories of some of these 6th century saints, as an example. And the stories surrounding them and just how incredible they were. It was basically like being back at school for two weeks but learning about something with a more mature ear than perhaps I had then.

Are you affiliated with any religion?

Not really, I’m a spiritual person, but I’m not particularly tied to any kind of religion. I probably felt drawn most to Buddhism on that trip. I have always enjoyed the Buddhist way of thinking, which is a kind of belief in the soul. And that the soul, or energy of some kind, lives on, whether it be through consciousness or externally from one’s physical body when one dies. I have felt that way inclined, since I was a kid, really. I’ve never believed that when you die, you just die. That’s just not been in my thought process, ever. So, as such, I’ve never really feared death. And it was just nice to spend time with Buddhists who also believe that this life just happens to be where we are at the moment.

Were you brought up as a Christian?

Nobody in my family has ever practised religion. We never pray at dinner; we don’t pray before bed. We had chapel at school that we had to attend three times a week, and at the weekend we would sing hymns, so I was brought up Church of England, but not in a practising manner. Since this pilgrimage, I’ve read a lot of books about the science behind death including ‘Many Lives, Many Masters’ by Dr. Weiss, which is very interesting.

Has the experience changed or increased your faith?

I must have read, six or eight books, some are more science-based and then some are more, fictional. My horizons have been broadened and I’m far more interested in faith in general.

Is your faith or religion something you’ve previously felt comfortable about openly discussing with your peers, the public or within the press?

Yes, I’m happy to talk about anything.

Were there any particular instances or experiences during the pilgrimage that triggered any kind of change?

I’d go back to the fast, that has changed the way I eat since filming.

Since returning home from the pilgrimage, have you felt different or engaged in activities around your faith you had never previously considered? Is there anything else?

The whole experience made me feel even happier to be alive, if you know what I mean. I’m very conscious of health and wellness now – although I kind of have been for a while – but I’m particularly conscious of certain things.

You spent two weeks with a group of strangers. Did you learn anything new about yourself through the experience?

We were very fortunate with the group that we had, and I wouldn’t have changed a thing about it. Amanda was wonderful, just such a great character. I loved everyone, to be honest. Sonali was excellent, Christine McGuinness was super, so was Tom, so was Eshaan. Basically, everyone was completely great.

What do you hope pilgrimage viewers will take away from watching you take part in this series?

That religion and spirituality don’t have to be super serious taboo topics. Most people, if they lift the lid slightly, will find stuff that they love about it. Also, we’ve made a really fun show, the show is entertaining and funny. If you’re thinking that the show is going to be stuck up and boring, and a stereotypical show about religion, it’s not – expect it to be very entertaining.

Describe your feelings and emotions when you reached the last church in Aberdaron, where you had to collect stones from the beach. Why do you think that was so emotional for you and your fellow pilgrims? Even before you knew you couldn’t cross to Bardsey Island the following day, it was feeling like an extraordinary end moment…

So, we had to pick up stones or a stone from the beach and label it with somebody’s name that has departed, or with difficult issues we were holding onto. And then we left it on a pile, just outside the church.

Essentially, it’s like a passing moment for you to wish well to that person, or is a communication with that person. You stand and can communicate with that person. So obviously, I found a beautiful rock and I wrote Michael on it and shared a moment with my brother, outside that church, which was a really special moment.

It was just a really beautiful part of the world that felt like a very fitting end to a long journey that we’d all gone on together, and seeing everybody else be so emotional, in that moment as well, it felt like we were sharing a poignant moment together, and it brought us closer together.

How then did you feel when you got to that point on the mainland, which is the nearest point to Bardsey Island that you got to. Was it disappointing? Did it matter?

For me, it didn’t really matter by that stage. We’d covered the ground, and we learned so much and we had spent such a good time together, the end point made no difference to me.

Also, we were able to hike up a nearby hill and catch Bardsey in its full splendour, which was incredibly beautiful. The sea was very rough, so it was all crashing off Bardsey, and it was an amazing and beautiful thing to see. Had we actually been on Bardsey, we wouldn’t have been able to appreciate Bardsey in the way that we did, from the viewpoint that we attained. So, as far as I’m concerned, it was almost a better finish to the journey.

Would you do it again?

I would do it again, yeah. Absolutely.

Summarise in one sentence your experience on this pilgrimage.

It was an enlightening journey, through a beautiful part of the world, with special people.